Diff between Full Frame Vs Cropped Frame

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Diff between Full Frame Vs Cropped Frame

Postby jazzybatra » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:15 pm

Hello,
I have this question in mind about colors in Full Frame and Cropped Frame. Is it true that photos taken with a FF camera is near to "what we see is what we get" colors and more vibrant due to big pixel size whereas for cropped frame we need to do lot of post processing to make it look niceir? I take raw pics and do basic editing using Canon RAW editing software and zero skills in Photoshop. Wondering buying a 5D M2 will still require lot post processing?

I have Canon 40D with 24-105mm 4L lens and couple of cropped frame lenses and all my landscape pics are mostly dull if I do basic editing.

Some examples which make me think are as below:

This photographer uses Nikon D700
http://www.fotowala.in/wedding-photogra ... -in-delhi/

This Photographer uses Canon 5D
http://www.neilburton.de/
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Postby Mark. » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:26 pm

This type of question is when we need Bob, Bod to thread!
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Postby mbrandste » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:06 pm

Hi all,

although i can´t answer your question, really stunning pictures at the second link oO .

greetings

PS: I can´t imagine that those pictures weren´t PPed. They just look too good.
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Postby jazzybatra » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:03 pm

The reason for this question is, I have Canon 40D and I can either upgrade to 7D or 5D since I have one FF lens or just try to learn PS and spend more time editing than clicking. Will wait for Bob to respond. If I can get some sample shots with same setting and landscape pics between FF and CF, that will be very helpful.
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Postby frs69 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:29 pm

Hi Jazzybatra,

+1 to mbrandste, and +1 to Orsan kart :lol: Bob is definitely the right person to answer this. And yes, you do have great looking shots in that link :)
Have a nice day.
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Postby Jatinder » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:41 am

see the difference yourself!!!!! left one is FULL frame

if u crave for awesome detail and color reproduction then choose full frame DSLR because the sensor size in full frame is 36X24 mm i.e size of traditional film and it beats APS-C clearly

left one is 5DMKII right one is 40 D both are using super sharp Zeiss 50MM F1.4 Prime Lens
Image

FULL frame VS APS-C comparison

Image

main thing is in per pixel sharpness full frame will win because of large surface area of sensor.
Last edited by Jatinder on Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 4agze » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:28 am

Try wikipedia they have full explanation of all the sensors format available in the market. Click on the wikipedia link will direct you to sensor size.

Regards
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Postby jazzybatra » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:33 am

thanks everyone for your responses. Does anyone also have this comparison in landscape pics? I could feel the difference in skin color and texture but just wondering about landscape pics. Sharp and expensive prime lenses is another factor. I am planning to hire 5D M2 for a day and click some pics to get the feel of it.

Is there any major difference between 5D and 5D M2 colors and sharpness other than megapixel? any known issues? I can get 5D for S$ 40 a day and 5D M2 for S$ 98 and a 2nd hand 5D for S$ 2000 and 2nd hand 5D M2 for approx S$ 3500, so wondering if I should rent 5D or 5D M2 for my testing?
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Postby 4agze » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:35 pm

Hi jazza,

If you do landscape 99% on your shootings, a full frame 5D will suit your needs well, very well. I got to read your first post, I think with your current 40D it is a good camera I had used it for most of my Europe trip last year before I upgraded to 1D it can produce very good and sharp pictures.

You need to think of lightings, early morning and late evening produce best light. Try to take some pictures of same location in early morning, noon and dawn. I am pretty sure the first and last one will produce best image. Also talking about the PP, I tend to do a little in Canon's DPP and adjust the contrast, sharpness, WB, etc... then convert to jpeg.

Filters such as Graduated Neutral Density, Neutral Density, Polariser do help you create some stunning images. With this method, you do not have to PP if you exposed correctly. Filters can be expensive hence most amateurs or hobbist prefers PP later on.

If you can afford rent the 5D Mk2 and try it out yourself. Good camera doesn't mean you do not have to PP your images later.

Good luck 8)
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Postby jitteringjr » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:25 pm

Jatinder911 wrote:see the difference yourself!!!!! left one is FULL frame


That image doesn't tell us what we are looking at. For all we know, we could be looking at a 300D versus a 5Dii. I'm not saying you are wrong but having all the facts helps.

Here is a crop of a 7D versus 5Dii (7d on left). Both are shot at iso 100 with an EF 50/1.4. f8. the 7d was shot from further away to maintain the same field of view.

Image

The 5D is clearly sharper, but as far as colors go, I'm not seeing it. You be the judge.

Here is the original document I found this picture on:

http://rolandlim.wordpress.com/2009/11/ ... 7d-review/
Canon 7D/350D, Σ17-50/2.8, 18-55IS, 24-105/4 IS, Σ30/1.4, 50/1.8, 55-250IS, 60/2.8, 70-200/4 IS, 85/1.8, 580ex II, 430EX II, 270EX II.
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Postby Gregory.Rotter » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:48 pm

The main differences for Full frame over Crop, are;

thinner depth of field
cleaner High Iso performance
Better dynamic range at higher Iso
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Postby Bob Andersson » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:46 pm

Hi jazzybatra,

My previous camera was a 40D which I sold when I bought my 5D MkII. Going back to your first post in this thread I think it's a mistake to believe that the 5D2 will somehow automatically deliver better colours. I added a couple of threads to the forum some time ago about the pros and cons of FF sensors (here and here) which may help. The main advantages I see with my 5D2 are that it's relatively kind to my lenses (bigger pixels) and those bigger pixels potentially deliver cleaner data with better dynamic range which allows slightly more liberties to be taken during post processing which may, of course, affect the achievable vibrancy of the colour but I wouldn't put too much emphasis on that possibility. Personally I think it would be a waste not to consider post-processing any image you take in the same way that back in my darkroom and smelly chemical days there was no way I'd not vary the developing process while printing, not to mention dodging and burning, in order to give extra love to a picture I was really pleased with.

As a self confessed "happy snapper" I'd have to answer "not really" if asked whether I need a 5D2 but I don't regret the purchase. Hope that helps. 8)

Bob.
Sony RX1R II. Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm f/2.8 + 1.4x T/C, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8
M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8, Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
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Postby jake.rohan » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:12 pm

jitteringjr wrote:That image doesn't tell us what we are looking at. For all we know, we could be looking at a 300D versus a 5Dii. I'm not saying you are wrong but having all the facts helps.

Here is a crop of a 7D versus 5Dii (7d on left). Both are shot at iso 100 with an EF 50/1.4. f8. the 7d was shot from further away to maintain the same field of view.

{image taken out}

The 5D is clearly sharper, but as far as colors go, I'm not seeing it. You be the judge.

Here is the original document I found this picture on:

http://rolandlim.wordpress.com/2009/11/ ... 7d-review/


just quietly, that is a flawed test.

At that aperture, the 7D is going to be suffering from diffraction softening. a cleaner test should be done at approximately f/4.5 or f/5.6.... something around that mark.

that is, unless, you were trying to illustrate diffraction softening... but from the wording of your post, thats no the impression i got.


In regards to the colour difference between FF & cropped, my belief is there there isnt going to be any drastic difference. or at least no difference that cant be fixed in PP quite easily.

Full frames have many advantages over cropped sensors (see Bobs links), but colour reproduction isn't one of them.

The two photographers you have pointed out are professional, career photographers by the look of it... both of them would use PP to clean up and alter colours of their photos (i.e. that is the look they are going for, not a limitation of their camera).
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Postby jitteringjr » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:14 am

jake.rohan wrote:just quietly, that is a flawed test.


That is a very good point and good catch jake!

The writer of the review actually addressed that in his review. Here is an f8 versus f4 comparison of the 7D.

Image

Looks like the diffraction is pretty negligible at f8.

The crop is from the center-ish part so maybe that is why it is so negligible. My understanding of diffraction is that it gets worse at the borders. Please correct me if that is wrong. My knowledge of diffraction isn't that strong.
Canon 7D/350D, Σ17-50/2.8, 18-55IS, 24-105/4 IS, Σ30/1.4, 50/1.8, 55-250IS, 60/2.8, 70-200/4 IS, 85/1.8, 580ex II, 430EX II, 270EX II.
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Postby Razvan » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:38 am

jitteringjr,diffraction doesn't affect just the borders,but the whole photo altogheter.

I'm a bit puzzled. for a prime,it's peak of F/5.6 means that F8 suffers from a very small & unnoticeable amount of diffraction. still,the photos in the examples above tell a different story. odd...
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